Jason Mayden, a Black designer, educator, entrepreneur, and father of two, reminds us that it’s not a kid’s job to convince us of their truth.
Jelani talks with Jason Mayden, a Black designer, educator, entrepreneur, and father of 2.
Jason Mayden also happens to be the author of A Kids Book About Design.
Jason is chock-full of wisdom and amazing insights into what it means to be a parent. Something about the way he weighs philosophy with practical advice, you'll want to have your pen ready to take notes.
Jelani and Jason talk about race, agency, empowerment, stewardship, and even Batman. Yes. Batman. You've never met anyone quite like Jason. And we should all be thankful that there are dads out there in the world like him.
All right, Jason Mayden. Let's get into.
Learn more about Kevin by visiting linktr.ee/jasonmayden.
Check out A Kids Book About Design.
Shop the latest from Super Heroic.
Contact us by emailing us at listen@akidsco.com.
Explore our collection of over 80 books made to empower, by visiting akidsco.com.
Better Grownups
S1E04, Stewards of Our Children with Jason Mayden
[INTRODUCTION]
Jelani: Hey. Welcome to Better Grownups. I'm Jelani Memory, founder of A Kids Co. And this is a parenting podcast all about how to be a better grownup.
This week, I'm chatting with Jason Mayden. He's a Black father of two, a designer, educator, and entrepreneur. He also happens to be the author of A Kids Book About Design.
This might just be one of my favorite interviews. Jason is chock-full of wisdom and amazing insights into what it means to be a parent. Something about the way he weighs philosophy with practical advice, you'll want to have your pen ready to take notes.
We end up talking about race agency, empowerment, stewardship, and even Batman. Yes. Batman. I can assure you that you've never met anyone quite like Jason. And we should all be thankful that there are dads out there in the world like him.
All right, Jason Mayden. Let's get into.
[INTERVIEW]
Jelani: Jason, welcome to Better Grownups.
Jason: How you doing man?
Jelani: I'm doing well. I, I was, I was really looking forward to this interview cuz you are incredible, prolific. You've done so many different things. And actually, as we were chatting before, as like I, I started to think about more things that we could talk about for this interview.
So, so grateful you're here.
Jason: Thank you, man. I'm excited to, you know, share as much as I can about my journey and hopes of helping someone out there as they, uh, navigate, you know, parenting.
Jelani: Yeah. Well, you've got this incredibly inspiring journey from childhood to today. I, I really want you to take us back to that moment and that time period where you're in the hospital, literally fighting for your life and, and where that took you on your journey to today.
Jason: Yeah. So when I was seven years old, uh, I was diagnosed with something called septicemia, which is severe blood infection. And for me, it was very noticeable because I had a high degree of energy. Um, and so whether it was locomotive play or immersive imaginative play, my parents noticed a significant decline in my ability to communicate and physiologically be engaged.
So that was a, a big moment for them. And it was an alarm. And as a parent now, you know, for me, I, I see how helpless it feels when you see your child sick and you can't fully do anything about it.
Um, so as I'm laying in the hospital, there were several different lessons that I learned. One, the power of sacrifice, you know, watching my father continue to go to work, you know, um, out of our, you know, our economic needs and missing certain things, you know, that I was dealing with in the hospital, but understanding that my father was there. More than enough, right. To be present, to be, you know, very involved in my wellbeing and my recovery.
Witnessing the strength of my mom, you know, and navigating, communicating what was going on with me, with my siblings and my, my, my extended family. And then it was a, it was a spark in my imagination. As I read through comic books, actually the one over my shoulder is the, is the copy? Um, not the original one I had, but where this character Dr. Lucius Fox was introduced to me. So I'm laying there feeling completely hopeless. Wondering, you know, if I'll be okay and when I'll be okay.
And as I'm reading this comic book, I discover a figure that looked like me. He had very similar interests, he had very similar, you know, kind of poised. And I just went down this rabbit hole of trying to discover and unpack who is Dr. Lucius Fox. And how is he so cool. How is he able to make gadgets for Batman?
And so children use their imagination to disassociate from present reality. And so in that moment of dissociation, I allowed myself to believe that I was gonna grow up to become Lucius Fox. And it was my mission to get out of the hospital so I can go and work for Batman. And so that seven year old imagination catalyzed my desire to, you know, create for some of the world's greatest athletes and some of the world's greatest heroes.
Jelani: Oh, that's incredible. I love that.
Well, before we started you, you mentioned the concept of parents think they own their children. Uh, and that, and you took umbrage over that, that were really stewards of our kids.
Can you unpack that concept for us?
Jason: Yeah, I think it's a generational shift, you know. And growing up in my culture, you know, which is, you know, black American culture. We have a high regard for the matriarchs and the patriarchs in our family. A lot of times children talk to stay in a child's place. Right. You know, this is what children can do. This is what children should be. And I think it's probably something that happens in multiple cultures, but I only can speak to my own. I can observe other cultures, but the things I experienced was that, yeah, there's this, there's this belief that we're property of our parents.
Now that used to actually go online with where society was trying to pull parents and children apart, whether it be the school system, the school-to-prison pipeline, whether it be, you know, the ills of inner city. And so I get the, you know, the, the desire to wanna wrap your children up and protect them and hold them and keep them.
Um, as I evolved and as I grew, you know, in my understanding of parenting and having a different relationship with my children, being in a different environment, having different challenges, my wife and I were discussing that what is our role as parents in this generation? We have more information. We have more resources. We have more opportunities than our ancestors. How do we wanna evolve our relationships so that our children can navigate you know, um, the challenges that they'll face in their lives.
And that's when it hit us, that we're not actually owners of our children, we're stewards, they've been entrusted to us. And if they've been entrusted to us, it's our job to get them, you know, to understand how to navigate this world, using their own discernment, not ours, using their own ideals and principles, not ours. Now we can transmute them to them where we can teach them, but they're naturally gonna evolve and have their own perspective and opinion.
Their generation, Gen Z, they're very vocal about how they feel. They're very vocal about what they're passionate about. And while that may, you know, be off putting to some adults, it's exactly what we fought for. It's exactly what we sacrifice for so that they can't have agency and have a voice and feel confident enough to, you know, to declare what they believe is their truth.
And so I do fundamentally fundamentally believe that as a parent, I am a steward, you know, I set guardrails in place and the kids will bump and hit the guardrails, but they're still going in the right direction.
Now, if I'm holding their hand and pulling them along they'll lose the ability to have discernment and discernment is the number one thing that lets them navigate with certainty because not everything is harmful to you and not everything is helpful to you. And not having the ability to filter which one is, which is where a lot of young people fall, you know, fall into traps.
[BREAK]
Jelani: We’re back. You’re listening to Better Grownups, and my conversation with Jason Mayden.
Jelani: Generational difference makes so much sense to me and seeing how it went from the silent generation to the boomers, the boomers. And then you got the gen X, which is sort of sitting in the middle and then obviously on to millennials and now Gen X and Gen alpha. Uh, you've got to Gen Z kids.
Um, I have this belief that every generation gets like slack from the previous generation. Uh, around things they perceive as slights or, or, or things that they start to see negatively. But I actually, I look at Gen Z and I go, what a remarkable generation sort of everything I think we wanted to be as millennials, but sort of everything we wanted to be as millennials, but sort of didn’t have the freedom or capacity to do.
I see this activist spirit. I see this willingness to call things out. I see this true realism, right? It's not pessimism or optimism, but this realism mm-hmm How have you navigated, you know, your, your now teenage kids, one starting college and end those generational differences?
Jason: Um, you know, it hasn't really been difficult for me to be honest, because the way we raise our kids, we've always focused on helping them build a vocabulary to articulate themselves.
And so very early on, there's a book called the Columbian Orator. It's the book that Frederick Douglas used to teach himself how to read. At that time it was printed, it was a collection of the world's greatest orations, you know, sermon on the mound, Cicero, like these really beautiful speeches that were about, you know, political unrest or civil unrest or, you know, shifts in how people should be treated.
So these are very profound, intellectually, well written, well argued statements. And so we would sit with our children. I would read these to them. I would have them underline or write down the words that they didn't understand. And we were going research the word, and then we would put the word in context.
So as they got older and they started to frame and understand their own consciousness and the things in the world that they would feel passionate about. It became a conversation, less about, hey, you don't get it, you're too old. And hey, let me explain to you why this is a big deal to me. And it became a very great, healthy dialogue and conversation.
And I think where a lot of millennial parents may run into trouble is our ego is damaged that our children may know something sooner than we did, or maybe more informed than we are about a certain topic because they come from the fact checking generation. Gen Z will literally just listen to what you say and then go fact check it on the spot and call you out and say, that's not true.
So, you know, if, if you have this egoism attached to I'm the parent I'm always right. It becomes harder to raise a gen Z kid, because they're gonna challenge you on your definition of right. So I, that's not how I, I, you know, built the rapport with my children. So I would tell 'em, “I don't know if this is true. Let's look at it together. Let's discover together.”
So their entire life we've been co discovering things. We've been co discussing things. So now at the age of 18 and 14, when they're, excuse me, very passionate about equality, very passionate about fairness in how they treat people in, in community service, they don't have to convince me of their truth. They know that I'm gonna witness it and participate it and not, and they know that I'm fundamentally excited that they can teach me things that I don't know or show me things that I've never seen, because it keeps me young. It keeps me engaged.
So I'm grateful. It was a, it was definitely a different path than what I saw some of my peers taking when they were raising kids. We also decided to have kids very early because I, as a designer, I looked out into the future and I'm like, these kids are gonna need to have a different level of skill set and a different level of their relationship with their parents.
Um, so with my son being a freshman in college and me being, you know, basically in my early forties, there's very little culturally that I don't understand that he's exposed to. The music, the topics of the time. So I'm not so far behind where it's like, oh, turn that down young. No, we're right there. Lock step.
So it, it, I'm just grateful, man, because at the end of the day, I'm witnessing a generation of people that are tied with the current structure. And they're not gonna just complain about it. They're actually just gotta rebuild it and build it better for all of us.
Jelani: Well I’d just like to pull out of that, that while we're all reading Dr. Seuss to our kids, you're reading Cicero.
So I think you did a good job. Um, uh, you know, I. I, I get asked to be on podcasts a lot. And it's always about the same thing, which is like Jelani. How do we talk to our kids about racism? Tell us, tell us Black father, how do we do that? And it, and it doesn't help that I wrote a book on it. I'm curious to ask you sort of Black dad to Black dad, what conversation is not happening amongst families in America?
And look, that's a, that's a broad generalization. What conversations aren't happening about race that should be?
Jason: I think the conversation that should be happening about race specifically in the Black community is that we're not monolithic. mm we're not monolithic. We have a belief that there's only one way to be Black.
And a lot of instances, it's like, there's this acceptability range of blackness based on where you grew up, how you speak, how you dress, and that causes this interracial conflict, we call it colorism. But a lot of it's been given to us where we see each other and say, oh, you're not black enough because you haven't had this experience of struggle.
So me growing up in a city when I went to undergrad and I went, you know, was in school with a bunch of people from all over. That was the first time I noticed that we would display our, our depth of blackness in correlation to our poverty, like I'm blacker. But I went through a harder time. I grew up in the, in the city.
So I, that get that I would meet my friends who didn't. They grew up in affluent black communities and they had different experiences than me. Yeah. That was a question of, you know, is that black enough? And so I think I don't worry about what everybody else is saying about us. It doesn't matter to me. I don't believe I'm the fear to anyone.
I'm not worried about anyone's perspective on what black is, but inside of my own culture and my own race, I do want my people to see each other as beautiful and see the spectrum of beauty that exists with black Americans, black central and south Americans, black Canadians, Africans from the, from the continent.
Like we have so many different versions of our culture. I'm just going deeper to see and enjoy and love all of the tapestry, um, uh, of blackness that exists on the planet. So I think that's something for my culture, for us that I would love to see more conversations around because we're, we, you know, my parents gave me a very different talk, you know, about, hey, This is how you have to function.
And this is where you have to be a little bit on your toes and this person might say this to you. And, and those conversations still happen. But in my household, I book end them with, oh, and by the way, your culture is beautiful. And here's all the versions of your culture, where you can go and travel and learn about it.
Cause I don't want, at least from my household to pass along this notion that our life is just gonna be trauma. Our life is just gonna be conflict. Our life is just gonna be subjugation and oppression. That is not true. And we are not meant to be, you know, put in a position to walk through life only to see, you know, through the lens of other people's eyes, which is usually eyes that are judgmental.
So when I look through the eyes of my culture, I see beauty. I don't see brokenness. I see opportunity. I don't see oppression. So that's the kind that I wanna move towards, man. It's growing beyond being bound to this, this generational trauma that we keep repeating through the stories we have to share.
Jelani: Yeah. Well that makes me think of sort white gaze when it comes to mm-hmm to black lives and, and diversity. And when things popped off in 2020, all of a sudden, every, all the white people were like, “Oh, diversity, we gotta, we gotta do something about this. We got racism. Oh my gosh.”
And, and, and it was like, well, one, this isn't new. So let's just not pretending it's you? Not at all. And then two, like, then it became like, oh, we'll just get a DEI consultant for your company. And that sort of will solve it. It's like, oh, well you don't. I get at, do you have a DEI consultant for your company Jelani? Like, it's like, what are you talking about right now?
Jason: Right.
Jelani: And I think what that's done is reduced diversity down to this one, singular monolith, which is Black people. Yeah. Which is really just a repetition of exactly what it's always been, which is lumping all of us into the same group. And then, and then we trade these tropes with each other. Right. Because the systems around us just reinforce and reinform that.
And I would say what I'm seeing now amongst our own media is a real true embrace of our own diversity among Black folks and all the different ways that can look. And I see that coming and starting to happen in the movie industry a little bit more in the TV industry where you're seeing these different views and avenues and perspectives into Blackness. Yeah. That, that haven't, it's not just, it's not like Sydney Portier, you know what I mean?
Jason: Yeah, exactly.
Jelani: It's not it's it's not the next Oscarbait slavery film. It's like, ah, it's like, haven't we seen this before. Don't we have more stories?
Jason: Yeah. Yep. Totally agree. Totally agree. And I think that's something that James Baldwin spoke about, you know, almost prophetically in a sense where he was decline to the world that we can no longer just look at ourselves the way other people see us, because it's a false image. Yeah. They can't see our beauty because they've been blinded by their own, you know, un unprivileged or intergenerational trauma, where they were passed on this idea that somehow we're less than because of the, you know, amount of melanin in our skins.
And also this other ring where, like you said, we get thrown in a bucket, it's everybody else. And then it's them. And it's, it's just those days are over with people are breaking down. And breaking up this construct of what race even is, because we know that race doesn't truly exist it was created to create, you know, to divide and to subjugate.
Yeah. So, no, I, I see us moving into a very healthy dialogue. Unfortunately, some people are rebelling against that. You see it with the banning of books you see with the way that history is being altered or being suppressed. And, you know, the reality is if the more you say something is taboo, the more it becomes desirable. So the opposite's gonna happen. You know, the people who are saying, don't read this, their children are gonna go and pursue it because they don't wanna know why is this so bad?
And when they come to that moment and they self-educate, and they realize that, wait, this system has been fundamentally flawed because it only allows me to see possibilities. It doesn't allow me to see exactly how I got these possibilities or why's possibilities are, should be available to all people is gonna be, is gonna be the opposite outcome that they hope for because the youth will go on finding answers on their own.
[BREAK]
Jelani: It’s Better Grownups, a parenting podcast all about how to be a better grownup. And you’re listening to my conversation with Jason Mayden.
Jelani: Well, that reminds me of what you mentioned earlier, which is this egoism that we bring to parenthood and that gen Z is sort of, they're the fact checking generation that just fact check you right in front of your face and go you're wrong.
Right. And it's like, oh, oh, uh, no, I'm not. How how do we as parents, let's just say, let's say I am millennial parent X, Y, Z, today. And I've got, I've got kids and I've, and I've historically said, because I said, so how do I, how do I get outta that habit and get into that, that mode of learning of flexibility of, uh, openness of, of lack of knowledge, when it comes to my kids.
Jason: I mean, the truth is sometimes you do just wield that parental trump card. Right. You gotta pull out that, that draw for UNO card on your kids. Like I said so. Sometimes that's the only power you have it's just, , it's just the flex. It's like, that's it. I don't know why, but just go to bed. Right.
But a lot of it is, is asking yourself, does the reality that you believe in, does it align with how you see the world. Because we're born and we automatically are put in a position where we consent to a reality that we didn't agree to everything we're told by our parents, everything we're shown by our parents is their version of reality. And over time it becomes our version of reality. But when we have the chance to choose, we have the chance to learn and unlearn. We have the chance to actually decide what is reality and what is the social construct that I believe is right for me, then we can start to see that conversation with that children shift, because you can let go of your reality, trying to be put onto your children, Your pain, your trauma, your desire is trying to be put onto your children.
So I know that my filters are very different than my son and my daughters. I know that my desires are very different than my son and my daughters. I know that my perspective on topic is very, is very different than my son and my daughters. And I don't assume that I have the answers. I assume that I have the desire and willingness to ask the questions. But everything is about co-discovery and everything is about building a better dialogue because I tell my children that as they get older, they shouldn't have to put effort into getting to know me. That's my job. As their dad, I should always be checking in and understanding and asking, who are you now? And how can I, how can I learn to love you even more as you evolve into who you're becoming? Who are you now?
So I ask my kids, what time catch me up? Who are you now listening to? What are you reading? What are you into? What do you care about? Because I just…
Our kids deserve to feel like they're wanted by their parents. You know, that their parents are interested in them, not just tolerating them. But interested. So my kids know that I'm interested in you, man. Catch me up on everything. What are you working on? Oh, that's cool. I don't know what that is. Show me this. And they'll be like, dad, you probably won't get it, but here's this thing I'm really into: Twisted Wonderland. It's like this cool Japanese version of Disney characters.
And it's just, that's how I feel, that's the relationship I want to have with my kids. I want them to pick up the phone and share everything about their day with me when they get older and know that I'm interested, not just saying, oh yeah, that's good. That's cool. That's cool. Hey, let me call you back.
You know, like, nah, it's that, something about that feeling, knowing that your kid wants to bring you, um, the things they're excited about, you know, even into adulthood that keeps me motivated.
Jelani: Yeah. Yeah. It's you don't want to miss the forest for the trees. And just tolerating your kids, just getting by getting dishes done, food on the table. Everybody gets in on time. You know, follow the rules, clean your room and.
And you miss them going, “Hey, I wanna show you something. I watched, I watched something today and I wanna tell you about it.” Right. And ah, I don't have time.
Those moments once they start to disappear, it's really hard to get them back because your kids stop. They've got years of hearing you say “no” stuff with you, even though you want to know about it, you know, maybe later.
Well, I wanna pivot. You created this incredible kids footwear brand called Super Heroic.
I want to hear about the, the why behind it. Um, because I remember the first time I saw it, I was like, this is brilliant. Like this is genius. So I just, I just want you to, to break down the story as sort of how that got started.
Jason: Yeah. So going back to when I was sick as a kid and falling in love with the comic book character that shaped, you know, my aspirations in life. My son had also had, you know, health challenges around a similar age. And at that time I was working in my dream job, you know, leading design for Jordan brand, but I'd always expressed to people that the only reason I would leave this place is if it became, you know, a choice between my children and my vocation.
And when I made the choice, people were confused because at that time it wasn't necessarily, I would say, widely accepted for men to be stay at home dads and just say, hey, I'm at home with my children. So they were like, why would you leave this career at the height of your career? Or at least my, my, that portion of my career, just to be a stay-at-home dad.
But it was way more complicated than that. And way more meaningful than just staying at home and spending time with my son, spending time with my daughter being part of their daily routine, moving back down to Silicon Valley, starting to research how I can change, you know, nonprofits for children who have been affected by, you know, whether it be low self-esteem, mental health issues, whatever it is that plagues them. In this case, it was my son and his health.
I wanted to be part of helping to build stronger children instead of fixing broken adults, cuz health and wellness is all about correction. It's all about waiting until you need to lose weight to learn healthy habits. Wait until you have to quit smoking to learn healthy habits. But when you think about creativity in play, it's a form of prevention.
And so Super Heroic was born outta that mindset. How do I give kids to agency, the voice, the insight to believe that they can grow up to tackle the world's biggest problem? So there was a body of research that was conducted, not by myself but by researchers out of University of Minnesota, that was called the Batman Effect. And what it showed is that children who are told they're hero, who then are put in context to solve problems, they actually perform better because they, they hold themselves to a higher standard cuz they know that heroes have a high degree of empathy. They're self-sacrificial, they're diligent, they're focused.
So children become with their called. So if you call a kid a loser or they're difficult, they become that. So I was calling kids heroes and then I gave them product in a multimodal system of play, which is footwear, apparel, and then experiences. The footwear was built specifically for how they move and how their body actually functions.
A lot of the products that we give to our kids are terribly constructed. And no matter what company says, they're actually building something that's better for your kid. Most of the times it's old silhouettes that they've modified and they haven't really done anything new except for new forms of marketing.
The second piece is around the experience is putting them in context and, and using different forms of play to tease out different forms of heroism.
And then the third piece that's really meaningful that is integral to the overall system was the packaging in the cape and the comic book. So when kids put on that cape that comes with the shoes, they transform from the regular self to their exemplar self.
It's no longer, you know, Jelani. It's Super Jelani and that Super Jelani can do way more than regular Jelani. It's Clark Kent versus Superman.
And we saw it. We saw children who had learning differences, children who had physical differences, put this cape on and this immediate boost of confidence. Still to this day, I get letters from parents saying, “My kid sleeps in these shoes and they're beat up. They have holes in them. His cape, her cape is torn up and they can't fit it as much, but they still sleep in it because they, they believe that they're gonna save the world. Like whatever you put in this product. My kid's confidence is through the roof. They believe in themselves.”
And this is hundreds and hundreds of, of notes and letters and DMS. You know, that I receive almost daily about the product. And I feel very blessed that we created a conversation early around the me, the mental wellbeing of children.
And how imagination is the neutralizer for a lot of the world's ills, when you think about it through the lens of a child and how they navigate
Jelani: Hmm. The Batman Effect. That's gonna stick with me. I think there's
I'm now understanding what you told me before we started this interview. I asked you if there's one theme you want this talk to be about, you know, this conversation between you and I, what do you want it to be? And you said stewardship.
And, and, and now through hearing about your own journey, about hearing your perspective on raising your gen Z kids, especially about hearing this navigating and creating Super Heroic. Look, man, like you are the wise wizard at at the end of the cave. You're, you're the Lucius Fox.
Like you're the, like, I'm, I'm feeling inspired, just listening to you. , That you know, it is very clear you see your role as that enabler, as that empowerer. I think what we often do in our, our grown upness in our parenthood is we center ourselves. Right? Mm-hmm we make it about ourselves, not about our kids.
And if we think about it, if our kid's Batman, who are we? Right? We're we're the enabler. We're the empowerer, we're the one that can help make it happen. We're Lucius Fox. We're, you know, Jim Gordon we're we're, whoever is around them to make sure that they can do their job. And, and I think where we get it twisted is we go I'm Batman and we tell our kids, “You're Robbin. Just, just don't get my way. Like, don't, don't mess this up.”
Jason: Yep. Yep. The kids cannot be the sidekick man. You're training heroes, you know, you're training the people who are gonna tackle tomorrow's problems. And so very early, I stepped out of the way and I'm like, what can I expose my kids to? So that when it's their moment to transform from the regular self to exemplar self, they're equipped to save the day, they're equipped to tackle that mission. They're equipped to tackle of difficult things.
So, yeah, man, I do see myself, you know, as Lucius Fox, like I really believe that I will be Lucius Fox in my lifetime. Whether in a movie or something like, I know it's gonna happen because I just I want to show kids that it's possible that heroes don't have to exist on a page. They can happen to exist in real life and they don't have to necessarily fly to be impactful.
Lucius was just insanely smart and he built things that helped Bruce, who didn't have a superpower. Bruce had an insane amount of wealth. But he was driven through this loss, through this fear, through this rage. And if you look at this generation, that's the same thing that's catalyzing, these movements. Fear, loss, rage.
So we need people who can steward those children to channel that anger, to serve into and not into destruction because misplaced energy is destruction. But when energy is channeled, now you have progress because it stays in motion. So we have to really look at ourselves differently and ask ourselves, are we, are we pulling these children away from their purpose because of our fear and because of our ignorance and because of our own ego? Or are we putting them in position to fulfill their purpose by letting go and realizing that they're gonna see and do things that we never could imagine in our lifetime?
I've decided to let go and just trust that my job, it isn't over, but it is to, to, to be behind the scenes, helping not only my children, but as many children as possible go further, faster than I ever did in my career.
Jelani: Hmm. Well, I think that's the, that's the ultimate mic drop, man. Just let go and, and, and go empower and enable your kids.
Jason, such a wonderful conversation. Thanks for being on.
Jason: Of course, man. Thank you guys for having me.
[CLOSING]
Jelani: Thanks again to Jason and to you for listening. If you're interested in snagging a copy of Jason's book, A Kids Book About Design, feel free to head over to akidsco.com.
You can find Jason at @JasonMayden on Twitter and Instagram.
And keep up with me at @jelanimemory on Twitter.
I really would love to hear what you think of the show, questions you want answered, and guests you’d like to hear from on the show.
Just email us at listen@akidsco.com.
Better Grownups is written and hosted by me, Jelani Memory. Matthew Winner was the producer on this episode, with additional production support from Chad Michael Snavely and the team at Sound On Studios.
Better Grownups is hosted by me, Jelani Memory. Matthew Winner was the producer on this episode, with additional production support from Chad Michael Snavely and the team at Sound On Studios.
Don't forget to explore our growing collection of empowering kids books, by visiting akidsco.com.
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