Lindz Amer, a multi-hyphenate writer, performer, creator, and activist, says that kids can see things that grownups don’t.
Jelani talks with Lindz Amer, a multi-hyphenate writer, performer, creator, and activist.
Lindz is the creator of the beloved web series, Queer Kid Stuff, and their work has been featured by Good Morning America, Kidscreen, Teen Vogue, and so many more. They've even got a TEDtalk.
They've written and consulted on kids shows like The Fabulous Show with Fay and Fluffy, the Webby-award winning Blues Clues, and You Pride Parade music video for Nick Jr.
Lindz is like a modern day queer and non-binary Mr. Rogers. Making media for the next generation is what they do, which is why I thought they'd be the perfect person to talk with when it came to kids, identity, gender, and how to navigate it all as a parent.
We absolutely get into it in the best way possible. And answer questions like, when do kids fundamentally understand their gender? How can you not screw up when your kid comes out? And why that last question is actually kind of problematic? Why is there so little queer kids content? And are things actually getting better for queer kids? Or is it maybe worse than it's ever been?
We’re so excited about this conversation. Buckle up.
Learn more about Lindz at their site, queerkidstuff.com.
And pre-order your copy of Rainbow Parenting: Your Guide to Raising Queer Kids and Their Allies.
Contact us by emailing us at listen@akidsco.com.
Explore our collection of over 80 books made to empower, by visiting akidsco.com.
Better Grownups
S1E02, Lindz Amer Asks, Are All Kids Queer?
[INTRODUCTION]
Jelani: Hey, welcome to Better Grownups.
I'm Jelani Memory, founder of A Kids Co. And this is a parenting podcast all about how to be a better grownup.
This week, I'm chatting with Lindz Amer, a multi-hyphenate writer, performer, creator, and activist. Lindz is the creator of the beloved web series, Queer Kid Stuff, and their work has been featured on Good Morning America, Kidscreen, Teen Vogue, and so many more. They've even got a TEDtalk.
They've written and consulted on kids shows like The Fabulous Show with Fay and Fluffy, the Webby-award winning Blues Clues, and You Pride Parade music video for Nick Jr.
Lindz is like a modern day queer and non-binary Mr. Rogers. Making media for the next generation is what they do, which is why I thought they'd be the perfect person to talk with when it came to kids, identity, gender, and how to navigate it all as a parent.
We absolutely get into it in the best way possible. And answer questions like, when do kids fundamentally understand their gender? How can you not screw up when your kid comes out? And why that last question is actually kind of problematic? Why is there so little queer kids content? And are things actually getting better for queer kids? Or is it maybe worse than it's ever been?
I'm so excited about this conversation. Buckle up. This is a good one.
Okay. Lindz Amer. Let's do this.
[INTERVIEW]
Jelani: Lindz Amer, you are a writer, creator and activist. Welcome to better grownups.
Lindz: Thank you for having me. It's great to be here.
Jelani: Yeah, honestly, I want to just get right into it. What got you into making all of this prolific kids content?
Lindz: Ooh. Uh, it really, you know, so let's go back. So everything really started for me in theater.
That's kind of like my origin story is like being a really nerdy little theater kid. Growing up in New York City and like going to Broadway shows and like absolutely falling in love with performance and then pursuing that through college. And then when I got to the theater program at Northwestern that I went to, um, there's a really robust theater for young audiences program there and I just kind of fell in love with storytelling for kids. And that's kind of been my, that was like the spark for a lot of things. And first of all, in like figuring out my craft and like, uh, understanding of myself as like a creative person. And then I, so I was taking these kind of theater for young audiences class and, and learning about storytelling for kids.
And I was also taking like queer theory at the same time and like figuring out my identity and understanding, umm queerness and gender identity at like a higher collegiate level and like in theory and stuff. And I, and I looked at kind of like these two things that I was falling really deeply into, and I wondered why they couldn't speak to each other.
So I kind of like took everything I was learning in queer theory and went back to my craft and was like, okay, why isn't this over here? I think this would've been helpful for me when I was a kid who again, was that like nerdy theater kid growing up in New York. And I saw that there just really wasn't any queer and trans representation in children's theater, in queer, in storytelling for kids generally. And I'm talking like from books to TV shows, but also to theater.
And so I started kind of pursuing that first through theater and then, um, really just found there wasn't a lot in that space for me, I think theater is like a whole thing to talk about, but like it's, especially children's theater I think is like generally a pretty white, cis, straight space. And there hasn't been a lot of movement there for a long time. Um, and I kind of pulled myself together and was like, okay, maybe this isn't the space for me in this moment.
And so, I was in London for grad school, kind of doing this like weird performance art degree and, uh, like traveling Europe for a year and just kind of like trying to figure myself out and where I wanted my career to go and all of that. And I was watching a lot of YouTube and like queer youTube creators like Hannah Hart, I watch Drunk Kitchen all the time and all of and all and folks like that. And I just kind of like had this wild idea for web series where I was just kind of like there's educational content on this, in this space. And there are people doing cool work and there's a lot of queer folks there and there are a lot of young people there. And so I was like, why don't I do like a weird, like Mr. Rogers-y, like preschool-aimed, family-aimed LGBT Mr. Rogers, Bill Nye sort of thing, and came back to the states and was starting to like, kind of figure out, you know, quarter life crisis, and figuring out my career and my art and my work, and just kind of like gathered a couple of friends together who could work a camera and came out with this pilot episode. And it all just kind of really snowballed from there.
And I've basically been making queer work for kids ever since. Um, and. And that's taken just like a lot of different forms from the web series to live performances, to I'm in books now. I'm in TV, I'm in music. I have kind of my, I I'd like to call myself a bit of a generalist. I do kind of like the same thing, but across many mediums and, um, uh, definitely keeps me on my toes and nice and busy for sure.
Jelani: Mm, well, I, I, I want to dive it back into that web series called Queer Kid Stuff, which is a great name by the way.
Lindz: Thank you my gosh.
Jelani: No, that's fantastic.
Lindz: People get a little weird about the name so I, I appreciate that. Thank you.
Jelani: No, it's brilliant. It's it's it's it's like exactly what it should be. And, and look, we'll get to sort of the people's feedback and haters in a second, cuz I have lots of questions on that end. Um, just.
Why did that show not exist before you made it? That I, it, it, it blew my mind to go. This surely has been done before that, that it's so obvious. Why was it never made until you showed up to make it?
Lindz: Um, I think the answer is that it was incredibly difficult to make. And, and I'm not saying like practically, um, I'm saying like, I mean, starting to segue a little bit into like the feedback and stuff, but like, there were so many roadblocks.
And like still to this day, I haven't had a chance to like reboot it or like create new content of that web series. Like there are so many obstacles and roadblocks to even just making it happen because there's so much stigma around queerness and kids. Like it is, I've just.
I've gotten the same like “feedback” on the web series, the its entire existence. And like what we're seeing right now in kind of like the national landscape of like queerness and transness and kids like that, her, the like groomer, the pedophile, the like the sexualizing kids. All of that's the banned books. All of it is what I experienced on a personal level. When I first started the series. And now I'm seeing it play out on like a national scale. And it has always been there that there is this. um, it's just, I just.
I hit a nerve I really, really did. And that spoke to like how successful the series became and how kind of beloved I think it's become. Um, but I, yeah, I think I that's like a, in a nutshell reason is that like, there's a lot of stigma and like queer and transphobia when it comes to young kids. And I just don't think anyone had the gumption.
Jelani: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a great way to put it. I think the gumption to create something like that.
Lindz: Yeah, And I think that like in the kind of larger, like kids' TV world too, like there have been moments in the history of it where people have like, kind of tried to do. And like now that's like kind of bubbling up and becoming a little bit more of a thing. Um, that I'm, I think a part of.
But, um, like there was a episode of, of, um, uh, in the Arthur universe in, I think, the nineties, um, this like Postcard for Buster, um, episode, they had like real life families, like send postcards into the characters and there was a same sex family there. Um, there was like a two mom family. Everyone went completely bananas. And it like basically ruined the next like 10 years of people trying to get queer representation for kids.
So, and like, you see how like places like Sesame Street and like have really avoided kind of like queerness and Burt and Ernie, all of that.
Um, so there's, there's just a lot of, um, people just not wanting to do it basically.
[BREAK]
Jelani: This is Better Grownups. Welcome back. Let’s go to my conversation with Lindz Amer.
Jelani: So, we make books on challenging topics from racism, death, cancer, gender identity. Um, and, and I remember even in the earliest days, when I, when my, my book was just a whisper of an idea, a thing that I made for my kids and, and, and was never gonna be more. When I showed it to a couple friends, they were like, “Wow, this is, this is really interesting, Jelani, like, but I would never read this, something like this to my kids. It's, uh, I don't want them to know stuff like this exists in the world.”
And I remember sort of like craning my head and going really, like, it was such an uninformed perspective that it was almost like that there wasn't really anything that I could say to it.
That web series was way ahead of its time. And so bravo to you for making it.
Lindz: Thank you. I think so too.
Jelani: Yeah. And to those stigmas around gender and queerness and identity with kids right now has seemed to reach this explosive cultural sort of boiling point, hot button moment. Yeah. Okay. Um, for grownups, for parents, for folks, with kids in their lives, coaches, aunties, uncles, grandparents, um.
Can you, can we just dive straight into it and start? Let's just like tear apart some of these stigmas and some of these dog whistles and some of these bits and pieces, because it feels like the stakes are so high when it comes to grownups getting this wrong with the kids in their lives.
Lindz: Yeah, and this is, this is a great way for me to plug my book. Um, cuz this is like a really big part of kind of like the first section of what I go through and this, um, my book is Rainbow Parenting and I talk about queer and gender affirming kind of like “parenting styles”, but it's like for anyone with littles in their lives, much like this podcast is.
And um, it's really about one, like, yes, outlining those stakes and talking about like the horrific statistics on queer and trans youth suicide. Like, trigger warning for anyone listening, but like, uh, talking about first, like Lela Alcorn who, you know, uh, died by suicide because of, she was a trans girl who didn't feel like she had any prospect in life. Um, uh, um, I'm not gonna get the names right. But there was a, a boy in, in, uh, in Denver, Colorado who was nine and died by suicide because he was being bullied for being gay when he was in his school.
And it's like, that is just like, those are not outliers. That's actually the norm. And like the narrative for myself is that like, I am here and where I am today because I was lucky. And I grew up with privilege that allowed me to get to a place where, like I had like a, a kind of like a, a light at the end of the tunnel where I could like go to college and kind of like get away from my family and like figure my stuff out and like figure out my craft and like what my purpose in life is.
And not everyone has that. Not everyone has access to the wealth that I had when in, in able to be able to go to college, to pursue what I wanted to pursue and to like figure myself out. Not everyone has that time or that access to privilege. And I think that like, it's, it's so easy to forget that like every single trans person that makes it to adulthood is like a marvel.
And it, it's there's just so much stacked against queer and trans kids. Even in just like first understanding themselves and having the representation necessary to be able to like develop the language and the ability to self-identify and find community in that way. But also just like, people just not supporting kids in the way they need to be, to be their like true, authentic selves. And that has so much to do with like expectations that parents put on their kids to grow up and be cisgender and straight, because that's how our society teaches us that like kids will grow up. Like that is like a projection we put on every single child, because that's the normative within our society of like, everyone is gonna grow up probably to be cisgender and straight. And like, that is just not true. And like, there's a lot more research that's been coming about out about the fact that, that isn't true and that like how many gen Z kids are identifying as like, not straight now today. And that's a lot of the trends with that.
I see a lot of people looking at, um, the proliferation of people who identify as left handed with the people and like it follows a similar trajectory of people who also identify who identify as trans. And like, it's not like there were more left handed people being born, it's that the stigma was basically erased in our society.
Like now it's totally normal to be a left-handed person. Maybe there aren't as many, you know, left-handed scissors being handed out in classrooms, but like, people are fine with being left-handed, there's nothing wrong with that. And so we're seeing that trend also as like, that's the way that there have always been this many transgender people, but they just haven't been allowed to be themselves or figure themselves out or be trans because of the stigmas against trans people. So-
Jelani: I love that insight and I think, um, it vents a really interesting opportunity slash bright spot, which is mm-hmm stigmas are being dismantled around the acceptance and the ability to identify as trans or as queer. But there's still this, there's still so many roadblocks, just like you talked about with your web series.
Let's get hyper practical. Let's say I'm a parent. I've got a kid, forget about the age, they’re school age. Uh, and they come out. How do I not screw that up?
Lindz: Yeah. Um, I think the biggest way to not screw it up is to acknowledge that you don't know everything and that like that is also okay. And I'm, I'm gonna say that again. It is okay to not know everything and not know how to do it right.
Because understanding that and understanding that you don't necessarily have the knowledge or, or experience to do this properly opens you up to be able to learn about it and to be able to learn about it and figure it out with your child and find the support that you need in order to explore that.
[BREAK]
Jelani: We’re back. You’re listening to Better Grownups, and my conversation with Lindz Amer.
Lindz: I do wanna back up just a little bit because, um, the way you pose this is that, um, on uh, starting with the fact that like a kid came out in your life. But I do want to challenge that. Like, what makes you think that, like, you only have to do this, if your kid is queer or trans? Like what tells you. What has to, what, why do you think that your kid is cis or straight? Why, where is that assumption coming from? Where are you already projecting and writing that onto your kid, especially if they are young and don't necessarily have the language or the representation to show them, that's a possibility model for them.
But also like I mean, look at society around us. That is the norm in, in how we grow up and how we think about like our, our kids coming into the world or of they're coming into a cis and straight world. And so how can we say that's not necessarily what could be your truth, right. And allow them to make that discovery for themselves before they even have to tell us.
Right? So I, so I just wanna like complicate that a little bit, but also like, it's definitely a different experience of like parenting in a queer and gender affirming way from the get go versus like, those assumptions being disrupted by your kid and having to deal with that and like the emotions of that, that like you might have as a parent or as a person with a kid in your life.
And like, that is a whole thing that you probably are gonna go through some emotions because breaking down those projections of what your idea of your child's life might be is, is a process, right? I think that like, those emotions are definitely valid. But also like, I mean, it's, it's the same process as like decolonizing our minds and like figuring out how to live with like anti-racist values.
Like it's all like such a similar, like trajectory. It's just like understanding a different facet of like our, uh, societal structures and like how they're influencing us.
Jelani: Mm that's well said. And it makes me think of this theory that I've had for a while around the problem with defaults. Um, another way to put this is bias or prejudice or preconception or, you know, assumptions.
But there are a series of defaults that we begin to embrace as we grow up and get into adulthood, and of course, when kids come into our lives, that fundamentally and someone as a kid coming in life, they start to challenge that just by the nature of, of being a kid and going, you know, what the hell are you talking about? Right. Like why would you think that? And, and, and I think there's two options for a grownup.
They can either go, oh, and have their mind changed, or mm-hmm, become malleable or rethink something or, or double down. And, I hate to say it, most parents double down, they double down on “I'm older, I'm smarter. I've got more experience. You don't know what the hell you're talking about”. Um, and I, a common refrain I've heard from folks who do not want to affirm their kids' identity or their gender is they're too young, or they're just confused. Or this is just a phase.
What do you say to that grown up?
Lindz: Uh, a couple of things. So the first thing that comes up for me is, and I, and I love to pull this out of my back pocket is that there's research that actually says the kids do know what, especially about their gender.
The American Academy of Pediatrics has said that most kids have a solid understanding of their gender identity by the age of four. So yeah, four years old kids, cis and trans, and non-binary all alike have an understanding of their gender identity by the age of four.
And then the other thing that's kind of coming up with that is this idea of childism. So childism, if folks haven't heard that word before is the essentially prejudice against kids for being kids. So for being young and kids are an incredibly vulnerable and marginalized group, just like, as, as like an identifier of like young people, because kids are humans. Kids are fully realized people with their own wants and needs. They're just like, like.
The biggest difference, I like to say, like between adults and kids. Like sure, height, physical differences, et cetera, etcetera. But like the biggest one for me is that kids just don't have as much lived experience as adults. And it's more about. And like, obviously, like don't always have like the tools to regulate their emotions and our developing and like all of those things, but like the lived experience is how adults bring so much baggage to ideas around queerness and around gender. And like, we bring our own experience around those ideas and like, therefore, the all of the stuff that society tells us about what's “normal” about our sexuality and our gender. And like generally how we move through the world through, um, navigating gender stereotypes and prejudices and all of the things that affect us on a day to day basis. Right? And our gender and our sexuality are so core to so many people's identities. And that's also true for kids. Right?
And like, they just don't have as much exposure to navigating these things as we do as adults. And so they're coming at these ideas and like, this is why I love talking to kids about sexuality and gender, because I can be their first um, introduction to these ideas. And I can explain it in a way that like is joyful and like, and not even centering queerness and, and transness at all, but like just giving like an open possibility of like, it's not just straightness and cis-ness that like, is the idea of gender identity.
Like your gender identity is not the gender you are assigned at birth by a doctor. Your gender identity is how you feel about yourself and then you can use language that we have that exists in our society to help you communicate that to others. But no one can tell you what your identity is. And I think that like, that's a big difference. And the other thing that I wanted to touch on, um, was
This is maybe a controversial take and I, and I wanna, and I wanna, um, suss it out a little bit that go for it. I think my like, kind of like radical idea is that all children are queer and I'm not talking about all children being gay, and I'm not talking about all children being trans. It's picking up on what you said that like kids are pre-structural. Kids don't understand these structures of our society. They want, they disrupt. Like, this is what's so exciting about kids and about including kids in justice and like radical movements is that they can see things that we don't because they don't have that lived experience because they are not as enmeshed and embedded in our societal structures as we are, because we have had so many years of having to navigate them through our personhood and our identity and our language.
So I think that all kids are queer in a way that queerness is like different and like outside of structure in like, kind of like the queer theory version of queer. Not as in like, I don't think every kid is gay. I don't think every kid is trans.
But I do think every kid is queer because they disrupt what is quote unquote normalized. And that for me is like, what's so exciting about queerness and is so exciting about being around kids in general, because one, I just, I, I like kids, kids are cool. And I think that like kids bring a fresh perspective to our world.
And there's like, I feel like Twitter discourse is always kind of like kids suck and, and I don't like being around kids and I'm kind of like, okay, but why are you talking in that way? What about like an entire group of people makes you not like them? Like that I like, if you said that about like a, a racial group, like that's racist .
Right? Like, why can't we think about kids like you're generalizing around an entire group of people, that's messed up.
And I think that like, this is also something that happens in like the queer and trans community too. And this, and this comes back into like the, you know, calling people like queer and trans people who work with kids, groomers, like, I mean, I have maybe 50 different spellings of the word pedophile in my block list. Right. And it's about, it's very specifically and insidiously about separating generations of trans people and queer people from each other. So we are in isolation and cannot continue to educate each other and help each other through the world.
I mean, this is what happens. I mean, I'm Jewish and this is like, and, and talking about like indigenous peoples as well is like, this is what happens when genocide happens is like generational trauma and like, and isolating generations from each other and breaking, um, cycles of knowledge. And it is, um, really, really detrimental to marginalized people's.
Jelani: Mmm. You're you're blowing my mind right now. I'll just tell you that.
So much to unpack there, but I, I want to key in, on, on this last idea that you shared. It makes me think that what's driving most of this is fear and, and I can, I can relate in some ways where, you know, I remember when things really popped off in the summer of 2020 after the murder of George Floyd.
There was, what's now been termed as a racial reckoning, but there was also a whole bunch of folks who were like, who were scared, sort of like, what are the Black people asking for now? Like, gosh, don't they have enough? Or like Black lives matter?
Like, oh, like there was so much fear packed into just people being unhappy and on the streets and protesting that there was that immediate backlash. And, and I feel like, specifically with gen Z and this radical generation that they are, and being able to be more freely themselves, be more freely activist, be challenged, this sort of status quo, um, that there's this, this massive backlash by the older grownup generation. Not everyone. Out of a fear, I think, they don't understand it. They don't get it. That's not how it was when they were kids. How could they know?
Like, there's so much packed into there. Look, we're not gonna solve it today on this podcast. Uh, we're not gonna solve racism. We're not gonna solve right like gender discrimination, but how do we start to undo that fear?
Lindz: Yeah, I mean that yes. It’s definitely about fear. Fear of the unknown, fear of change, fear of losing power, I think, is a really big thing and this all points to white supremacy, right? And, and people who are in power, AKA the wealthy cisgender straight white old men who run the world for the most part and like own almost every single company that exists in America. Um, and like capitalism and stuff.
And it, those people are scared because they have been in charge for maybe a couple hundred years. And that's what they've known. And they like being in power and they like having people who look the same as them on the other side of the boardroom and, uh, folks like us are threatening that. And folks, protestors, uh, for, during the Black lives matter protests, like that's exactly what they were doing. They were getting angry, they were getting mad and they were speaking truth to power.
And, uh, they don't like that. They like us complacent. They like us, you know, worker ants. They don't want us to have power. They don't want us to be making the rules. They don't want us to have influence. And it comes down to that, honestly. And I think it's, um, you know, for them it's been working, they've never had a hardship in their life and suddenly that is not necessarily true anymore that we're putting roadblocks in their place and, and in, in front of them.
And it's, uh, I think that that's shaking a lot of things up and, uh, I don't know. They, they like sitting on their money. yeah. And, uh, I think they like having it easy like that and they don't want that to change.
Jelani: You know, one thing I think we don't talk about enough for folks in that position. Right? Cis, white, straight, male. Um, lots of power, lots of privilege. Is is there's an underlying assumption with those folks and I, and I, 100% believe this is true is that they kind of think everything's kind of fine for everybody else. Yep. It's I.
I don't think it comes from like a malicious, like we must have our boot on the neck of every person not like us. Some instances are like that, but I think more so they sort of go, “Well, what's the, what's the big deal? I don't see color, but I don't see gender. Like, everybody's just sort of isn't everybody fine. Like what's why are you trying to take my stuff?”
And this this lack of empathy or recognition, or even being in spaces where they're interacting with and hearing stories that are not like their own. Hearing experiences. What I've found is revolutionary for folks in my life who like fundamentally, like racism didn't exist. That my experience wasn't different than theirs. That like, what's the big deal with this whole Black lives matter thing, is when I would let my experience bump up against their life and just show them just go here's, here's what I go through. No judgment. I'm not, I'm not trying to bring you down a peg and they go, “Ah, I had no idea. I had no idea it was like that.”
And, and that proximity created empathy and understanding and, and removed some of the fear. I think with this generation of grownups who are, I think, inviting more kids into being able to freely identify how they want to, especially with this generation of kids. I, I think that proximity is doing a lot of work to create more empathy, but I, I genuinely have a big fear that that's gonna come at the cost of, of a lot of kids who, who don't receive that empathy who receive hate, who receive fear, who receive, you know, stigma because of them just being themselves.
Lindz: Yeah. And I think like a lot of it comes back to education and communication and knowledge sharing, because I really think like, I mean, with the advent of the internet and the way social media functions now, and the way that we can find information at the drop of a hat and like a quick Google search, like I think that we have so much more access to information that was completely invisible to us that shows us how unequal, our systems are, particularly our financial systems and how marginalized people are not on the same playing field as these cis, straight, white, particularly Christian men.
And I think, uh, we're seeing that so much more and people are opening their eyes to that information and that's making a huge difference in exactly what you're talking about. It's about proximity.
And I think that like, that doesn't have to necessarily be someone in like the circle of your life. It can be someone who sees your tweets. It can be someone who interacts with you in the world in the way that your work is in the world in the way that people interact with your persona on the internet and like your sphere of influence, right?
And so many more people have expansive spheres of influence now to be able to share this knowledge and to be able to share it with kids and with young people. And like, I think that's a big reason why we're seeing this huge wave of activism in these younger generations.
And yes, absolutely building empathy is a part of that because you can see the inequality now. So starkly. I mean like, look at like information about redlining and like and, and credit scores. And just understanding like these basic underpinnings of how our society functions, that just levels certain people up without them having to do anything. And they see that they didn't have, they understand that they didn't really have to do much, and they are confused about why others have to do so much to be able to get to the same place.
And I think that those... It's just becoming so much more visible and I think like re... Getting a handle on our education system is so much of what's happening right now in politics, right? I mean, we've, we're talking about critical, like “critical race theory” in schools. We’re talking about book banning and things in schools. I mean, all of the teacher shortages, which are a huge thing right now. Uh, I mean the, don't say gay stuff in Florida. Keeping trans kids out of sports.
This is all about making marginalized folks more and more invisible. Burying our, our traumatic history. And keeping the like dirty stuff, like under the rug, like sweeping it all under the rug. Oh, we have a beautiful, pristine home. There's no dust in here at all. Right? And that is the facade. And that facade has been breaking down and that means we have to get the dust out from under the rug. And that means the house is gonna be dirty for a little bit. And like, I think we're in that phase of things right now. Like the “it's gotta get worse before it gets better thing”, which sucks. And like, not just sucks. Like it act like it has impact on people's lives. Like huge, huge, huge impact, and on, on swaths of different kinds of people with different kinds of identities and experiences. And that is awful. And like not something that should be taken lightly.
But I do think that it means that there's progress happening, which is like the silver lining of it, I guess. Um, and like things are shifting and something that I, um, has been kind of coming out of alot of the anti-trans legislation that's happening right now is that like, I am seeing people starting to show up when like they would've sat on the sidelines before, like before this year, I don't think I ever had a kind of like I do these Queer Kid Stuff, kind of like live performances and workshops and all that, and I'd never, before this year had a workshop that was just queer and trans kids. And now that's like so much of what I do in those workshops and performances. Those are really fulfilling spaces for me, too. And I hope they are for the kids. I think they are.
But like, I think it's, uh, it's important to see where the like, equal and opposite reaction is starting to happen, too.
Jelani: Mm. Well, I think you put it best if, if, if education is the answer, which I really think it is, we should all be very thankful that we have you, uh, making so much great content for, for parents, for grownups, for kids.
Lindz, this conversation was wonderful. Thanks for being on the show.
Lindz: Of course. Thank you for having me. This has been wonderful. I wish we had more time. There's so much to unpack.
Jelani: Me too. Have a good one.
Lindz: You too.
[CLOSING]
Jelani: Thanks again to Lindz Amer and to you for listening. The future is looking pretty bright with this new generation, but it’s up to us to become, well, better grownups if we’re going to not get in the way of it.
Lindz’s book, Rainbow Parenting: Your Guide to Raising Queer Kids and Their Allies, comes out May 30th 2023. You can pre-order your own copy right now wherever you get your books.
While you anxiously await their book, you can listen to Rainbow Parenting, their podcast for grownups!
You can find Lindz on Twitter and Instagram @lindzamer. Check out more of their work over at queerkidstuff.com or @queerkidstuff on Instagram
Keep up with me @jelanimemory on Twitter.
I really would love to hear what you think of the show. Questions you want answered, and guests you’d like to hear from.
Just email us at listen@akidsco.com.
Better Grownups is written and hosted by me, Jelani Memory.
Matthew Winner was the producer on this episode, with additional production support from Chad Michael Snavely and the team at Sound On Studios.
Don't forget to explore our growing collection of empowering kids books, by visiting akidsco.com.
This show is brought to you by the A Kids Co. podcast network. We make challenging, empowering, and important shows for kids and their grownups.
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