Daron K. Roberts, a speaker, investor, two-time author, former NFL coach, and all around incredible person, says, “You have to grow through what you go through”.
Jelani talks with Daron K. Roberts, a speaker, investor, two-time author, former NFL coach, and all around incredible person.
Jelani met Daron back in 2019 and worked with him to create his first children’s book, A Kids Book About Empathy. Daron is truly someone who’s hard to forget. He’s a wealth of wisdom when it comes to leaning into the most important aspects of parenting and the conversation covers everything from advice Daron got from his own parents, remembering to slow down with your kids, and how he learned to let go of his ego when it came to being a parent.
A note from Jelani before we start: Daron and Jelani are both Black fathers, with 11 kids between them, which means they’ve seen some stuff and it shows in this robust conversation.
Learn more about Daron at his site, coachdkr.com.
Contact us by emailing us at listen@akidsco.com.
Explore our collection of over 80 books made to empower, by visiting akidsco.com.
Better Grownups
S1E05, Daron K. Roberts Practices Radical Grace
[INTRODUCTION]
Jelani: Hey, welcome to Better Grownups.
I'm Jelani Memory, founder of A Kids Co. And this is a parenting podcast all about how to be a better grownup.
This week, I'm chatting with Daron K. Roberts. Daron is a speaker, investor, two-time author, former NFL coach, and all around incredible person.
I met Daron back in 2019 and worked with him to create his first children’s book, A Kids Book About Empathy. Daron is truly someone who’s hard to forget. He’s a wealth of wisdom when it comes to leaning into the most important aspects of parenting and we cover everything from advice Daron got from his own parents, remembering to slow down with your kids, and how he learned to let go of his ego when it came to being a parent.
Before we start I just want to note: Daron and I are both black fathers, with 11 kids between us, which means we’ve seen some stuff and I think our robust conversation shows. Along with many of my guests, Daron is truly one of my favorite people and I can’t wait for you to hear what he has to say.
Okay. Daron K Roberts. Let's get into it.
[INTERVIEW]
Jelani: Daron, welcome to the show.
Daron: Hey, Jelani. It's so good to, to see you. I would say in the flesh, but virtually. I'll take whatever I can get, man. Just a chance to see your face. It's good to be here.
Jelani: Oh, well, always good to catch up. And I'm, I'm excited to dive in today. I know a bit of your story, but I, I want to hear, how did you grow up?
What was life like sort of 0 to 18.
Daron: Yeah. So. You know, the twin goalposts in my family were, uh, religion and education. My dad's been a Baptist minister for 44 years. My mom was an elementary school principal for 30 plus years before she retired. And so from a very early age, I was either at school at church or at home doing schoolwork.
So, my mom was a third grade teacher. So in kindergarten, when I came home, she was teaching me the first grade curriculum, first grade, second grade curriculum. So that, that was, that was, that was sort of the, the, I think the genesis for me of really taking pride in not just education, but lifelong learning.
We traveled quite a bit throughout north America. So Canada and Mexico, they were really intent upon me getting a wider world view than- my hometown was Mount pleasant, Texas. East Texas, you know, population 12,291 people at the time.
Not the most progressive era, you know, area in, in the country. And so my parents were very intent upon exposing me to as much positive stimuli outside of east Texas as possible. And I, I can't, you know, I'm, I'm forever indebted to them for that.
You know, if you were to ask me Jelani back in the seventh grade, what, you know, when I think it's one of the most dangerous questions we can ask kids, which is, “What do you want to be when you grow up?” I think that question should be “Who do you want to be?” But if you were to ask me, what do I want to be? I would've told you governor of Texas by age 40. Hmm. Um, that was the…
I remember taking a trip to Austin where I live now standing in the capital rotunda and seeing the portraits of the governors and thinking like, that's what I want to do. And so I just knew that I had to make good grades, get into a good school. You know, the plan was, you know, go to UT, be student body president, Harvard law school, go to Houston practice for five years. Go back to Mount pleasant, hang a shingle, run for state Senate, run for governor. I had the color scheme for the governor's mansion, picked out. It was a done deal.
You know, the, the, uh, the trappings of youth in believing in a linear plan were, were in full effect. So when I, when I was growing up, but I played football. I was a first team, all district strong safety. I mean, I wasn't a great athlete, but I was solid. Yeah. Enjoyed it. But, uh, spent most of my time in church or at school.
Jelani: Yeah. , you know, I think we as kids, we have those linear plans, we think just like, “I'm gonna be a fireman”, right? “I'm gonna play in the NBA.” And ultimately, you know, um the big secret about being an adult is that it doesn't really work that way. And that's actually great.
And I think you are the perfect example of this total non-linear path of doing so many different things. Can you sort of take us through that professional career leaps from, you know, Harvard law to the NFL, two time author podcaster, speaker, like all of it.
Daron: Yeah. Yeah, so I go to the University of Texas. You know, at that time it was the largest student body in the country. 50,500. I mean, four times the size of my hometown, just to give you some scale. On a, on a Saturday for football, you could fit eight Mount Pleasants into the stadium, right? So, it took me a while to figure it out. And I, I was fortunate to have some strong mentors. I was fortunate to have a comfort level with getting therapy and really working through like, “How do I fit into this big place?”
I get elected student body president my last year, checking the boxes, apply to Harvard law school. Don't get accepted, don't get rejected, get wait listed. That was my first real bout with rejection. And it really forced me to, to, to really kind of look on the inside and really start to examine the “why”, because if, if I were really being honest with myself at the time, which I was not, my desire to go to Harvard law school was more about ego and less about purpose.
But I take a job with Joe Lieberman. I'm working in the Senate in '01. Don't want to be in DC. Don't want to be working on the hill. But I'm there for 9/11. And so, you know, one of the things I'm constantly telling my kids is that, you know, “You have to grow through what you go through”.
And I get a front row seat into one of the most tumultuous moments in our history. I go from working on education bills to national security bills, and I didn't wanna be there, but the education that I received in that one and a half year stint, like you, you can. You can't put a ROI on it.
I'm reapplying to law school. I get waitlisted four years. I go to the Kennedy school. I get my master's. Finally get in on attempt number five. Go through law school. Summer before my last year, my high school buddy, who was a high school coach, football coach says, “Hey, I'm gonna work the South Carolina football camp. Let's just catch up and come with me.” So I go with him. Steve Spurrier walks out the first day. He's like, “Look, one of our volunteer coaches didn't show up. Can somebody fill in for him?” So, you know, Jelani, I'm kind of looking around. I'm thinking to myself, shit. I was a high school, probably the right language. I was a high school football player in Texas, you know, Friday Night Lights. I raised my hand and uh, he's like, coach, what's her name? Like Coach Roberts. He says, “You got group six?” Yes, sir. I had no clue who he's talking to, Jelani.
Group six consisted of 60 6th graders. None of whom had any athletic talent whatsoever. Wow. Okay. This is the classic, like, you know, pawpaw and grandma buy you the, you know, South Carolina football experience. You're gonna go work out for three days, get a Nike shirt, take a picture with the head coach and come back. Absolutely. Yeah. Uh, they had a coach who couldn't coach. So I go to academy. I buy a bucket hat. I buy some sunglasses, a whistle, stopwatch. I'm watching, uh, Tony Dungy clips, and Dion Sanders clips to get drills down.
I mean, this is a complete sham. Um, met best three days of my life. And I noticed it was the first time in my life that I did not have to set my alarm clock to get up. Um, and I'm always, you know, thinking of my kids are kind of, you know, we have five kids from . 12 to five. And so we're constantly trying to remind them, just notice what lights you up. So it's so easy to concentrate on. I hate school, but like what part of the day did you really love?
So I said, “Hey, I'm gonna be a football coach”. Uh, fly back into Logan, call my parents. I'm like, “Look, I'm finishing law school, but I'm gonna be a football coach”. And my dad's like, “Do you know how much debt you're in?” And I said, “yes.” Quarter of a million dollars at the time. I said, “yes”. I said, “Look, dad. I mean, look, you're, you're a Baptist preacher, every Sunday. You're telling people that they don't know when they're gonna die. So they better make the right decision for their future. I don't wanna put this off until retirement. Who knows if I get there. Right? So I wanna do this now”.
So write a letter to every team in the NFL, get 31 nos. The Kansas city chiefs are the only, yes. Herm Edwards. My mentor to this day calls me up and he is like, I don't know why you want to do this, but I have an internship for you in training camp. I graduate uh, June the sixth of '07. I drive my 2002 Tahoe from Cambridge mass to Kansas City, Missouri. Dude, I'm the grunt like if you need barbecue sandwiches, you called me if you need, uh, if the defensive lineman need cases of skull, winter green Skoal you called me. Um, if players got cut, I was the guy who was putting all of our stuff into a box and taking it to UPS.
Best education in football could have been, like, I was just in the back of the room, writing notes, not saying a word, doing whatever the hell needed to be done. End of the year we went four and twelve, people get fired. I get hired. And, um, that led to seven years coaching. So two years with the Chiefs, two years with the Detroit Lions, uh, two years with West Virginia. And then my last year with the Cleveland Browns. Um, we went four and twelve. The owner walked in after the last game and said, “You're all fired”. And we were on a three year deal. It was the first year. Wow. It's only happened two times in the history of the NFL.
So I go home and I'm scrambling eggs. And my oldest son, Dylan walks in, he was three at the time and he looks at me and he looks at the skillet and he says, “You eat breakfast?”
So, you know, I do what any good father would do in this moment. I just ignore the kid, keep scrambling. Right? Like I just got fired. I'm not, I'm not what the hell are he talking about? My wife's sitting at the, at the kitchen table and he comes back and he says it again, “You eat breakfast.” And I turned to my wife. I said, like, “What is he talking about?”
My wife's from Kansas. Grew up on a ranch. Doesn't pull any punches. And she says, “When was the last time you had breakfast with Dylan?” And you know, my smirk quickly turns into like, I'm all out crying because I can't even locate the last meal, let alone breakfast.
So I, I decided, look, I'm going on sabbatical for a year. I come back to Austin, start teaching courses at UT on leadership, entrepreneurship, start a center for sports leadership and innovation. So we help our professional athletes transition back into civilian life after they're done. Um, and you know, written a couple books., I do 40 keynotes a year.
The life now at 43, I could have never predicted this at 13, 23 or 33. Like the life I'm living now, but it is probably… It's the most wholesome time of my existence on the planet. Like, what I'm doing right now and how I'm present now with my family and in my work. I've never been in a place.
[BREAK]
Jelani: This is Better Grownups. Welcome back. Let’s go to my conversation with Daron K. Roberts.
Jelani: Mm, well, one, thank you for just taking me through that journey.
There's so many different lessons there and there's a couple pieces. I wanna double click into one. I just wanna observe that as you're telling your story, I know the bits that, that are in your mind that you're talking about that are notable to you.
What stands out to me as a kid who didn't grow up with a dad who had a mom who was mostly emotionally checked out who had to work all the time or just sleep. Was your parents were just there. So that moment when you call your dad and you're like, “I wanna coach for the NFL.” I'm like, whoa, like that's the whole movie to me. Right? Like that, that's like the that's like the amazing, like, Ooh, that's amaz that's incredible. Um, uh, because I didn't have that.
And, and I feel like I've got this bit of a spidey sense now for folks who grew up in good homes with parents who love them, who were there along the way. That there's a type of trajectory you can have. There's a, a, an emotional security, a safety net out of that. And you, you exude that now, not to say like, you haven't worked hard or gone through struggle or, you know, persevere, but that moment where you're at the skillet, right? And your son asked that question, that sense of remorse that you felt uh. You could have gone to anger. You could have gone to check out. You could have gone to, it's not my fault. You could have gone. I got fired. Like everybody leave me alone, but now you went to, “I need to change like who I am, how I'm behaving”. And that I think, I think that's just remarkable one. And I'm also like, just sort of like fanboying going, like, what was it like to have a dad? Like, that's it right.
But I think there's this thing that we do as parents with our kids. And we don't even think that we do it, which is like, we try and predict the future for them. And we try and create a very linear path. Right. So we're like, ah, go get the good grades to go to the good school, to get the good job to have the good, like we go, there's only one path. And as soon as you step off of it, we start to go, Ooh, what about the whole future? And I'm curious. That very non-linear path for you, how does that imprint back on how you raise your own kids and the things you you do or don't do when it comes to guiding that path?
Daron: Yeah. Wow. I am. I surprise myself all the time. Um, in the sense, I'll give you an example. 10 years ago, if you would've said that I would be open to homeschooling. I'd tell you, like, “You don't know who I am. What are you talking about?” And, and I really have to give my wife, Hillary, so much credit.
We made a decision early on that we were going to do our very best to tailor. Each kid's experience in our home as specifically as we could to them. Mm-hmm to each individual, uh, as opposed to a one size fits all. So right now we have three kids in public school. I have two kids who are doing like a hybrid at home for three days, two, two days at a, um, Montessori school. And it just works for each of them right now.
And so. I think a little bit of when I look back. When I compare my, I journal, so when I compare my 20-year journal entries to my 40-year journal entries, I just really am struck by the fact that I didn't know. Like, you just don't know, like, you know, you know, there are these decision trees and it's an infinite, there are infinite possibilities until you've lived it and looked back. You.
Take the predictors hat off and really focus on the present and, and listen to what your kids were telling you. Like I, um, look, my, my parents were, were disciplinarians, um, with love. I do feel that there were some times where there was a very. I probably didn't get the opportunity to voice my opinions, thoughts, that I thought would deviate away from what was the structure, right?
And, um, I'm a 180 from there where now we're, we're having conversations about sexuality and we're having conversations about race and class and the educational system. Do you need to go to college? Why can't you learn a trade? Like, like there are conversations that are so antithetical to the “make good grades, get into a good school, go get a good job”. And my parents have acknowledged this, you know, our focus is on a good job. Like we didn't even know people made money making speech, like they, they couldn't even comprehend that someone could feed their family and do well from speaking to companies for 60 minutes.
Jelani: Yeah.
Daron: And so, um, I know I'm rambling, but there's just so much you don't know. So I just think that the, the default for parents needs to be this openness to explore alongside our children.
Jelani: Mm mm. I, I think that's wise and that, that approach with your kids, it just, just in the way that your parents, there was no nuance, it was, was do it this way or else. Right. Which is, which was that generation of, of the way to parent, which I'm sure they would go, “No, that was a step up from how we were parented.” There's more nuance now. There's more conversation. There's more dialogue. There's more customization.
I'm curious, when our kids become adults, when they become parents if they do, how they'll go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. “You, you gave us a bunch of nuance, but you missed this part.” And so then they start to offer their kids that.
You know, the name of the podcast is Better Grownups and I, and I really believe like we're always standing on the shoulders of the, the generation previous and the things that we were given. And that's the things we were given and, and were not given whether those are positive or negative to go, to take those things that were good to learn from those things that were negative to go, you know, “This happened to me, but it'll never happen to my kids. I'll never do that.” And the big grown up secret. is that our kids are gonna go do that same exact thing, you know,?
And, and somehow, maybe through these conversations, I'm trying to do some self therapy to go. I hope I am mature enough and emotionally secure enough to have my kids say, “Hey, you did this really well and thank you. But this you really missed. Like you, you really, you missed the bar and I got hurt in some, in some really bad ways.”
And for me to, I hope I can hear that and receive that. And instead of saying, “I did the best I could” is to say, “I'm so sorry” and, and leave it at that. Because it's just like this thing, you know, my wife and I were always talking about our own parents and where there's all, there's the excusing, right. There's like the, ah, well, you know, “The times were tough and I did the, you didn't know what was going” and, and it's always those things and it, and it almost stunts folks. It stunts the kids who are now grownups and it stunts those parents who are now grandparents very often.
And I think for that evolution to continue for us all, to really become better grownups, we, we have to both be able to let our kids stand on our shoulders, but also judge our actions and our behaviors and the way that we, we gave to them or didn't.
Daron: Yeah. You know, my wife again, uh, this practice of, you know, we ask for, for feedback, um, consistently each week, like, how are we doing?
Jelani: Kids a 360 process, 360 process.
Daron: We're doing three sixty in our home. The great thing about kids is, you know, the research shows this until they get into the sixth, seventh grade. They're brutally honest. Um, you know, the psych research shows that we have a seventh grade, they start caring about what so and so thinks. But up until that, I mean, you ask a five year old a question he or she, they are gonna give you what they think.
And it's been the most sobering experience for us to sit around a table and for our children to inform us, you know, even when we think we're doing a great job, that the ship is, is, is right on track, whatever that track is. For them to identify gaps.
And for then for my wife, and me to then huddle up and say, “Don't take it personally.” Right? Yeah. We asked for feedback. It's like, it's like the typical kind of corporate experience of I'm doing
Yeah, man. But it's beautiful. Right? I think it's beautiful.
Look, no one knows what the hell. As parents, we don't know what the hell we're doing. Yeah. I mean, you can read every manual. You're just trying to get as much good information as possible and do the best you can. And I think as long as we we're constantly checking our egos as parents.
I think also too, pairing is vitally important, but I don't forget that there's like five genetic codes running around my house and I'm not sure whether nature-nurture divide. There's not a clean proportion that we can put a number to. A lot's out of our control. Yeah. Right.
And so like almost taking some comfort in that and saying, “Listen, I'm gonna do the best I can, but we've all had examples. Two kid, you know, class examples of twins growing up in the same home and different outcomes.” And so, um, take off the predictor hat and just be present.
[BREAK]
Jelani: We’re back. You’re listening to Better Grownups, and my conversation with Daron K. Roberts.
Jelani: When, when parents feel like they need to control their kid into a certain behavior or certain outcome or certain grade or certain school or certain sort of professional trajectory is they then end up taking credit for that. “I did this.” Right?
And, and there is, there's when those kids become grownups, they resent that they resent the hell out of that because that wasn't their parent. That was them. Right? And they should be able to earn and own those accomplishments.
And you know, it, it goes the other way, which is I'm responsible for my kids. I need to love them. I need to take care of them. I need to pour into them. I need to be able to take feedback. Um, If they fall off, if they go down a bad path, if they have some struggles, I can, I can grieve that. I can try and look for what did I do wrong in here, but I also can go, “They're also their own person and it's not solely on my shoulders, their decisions and the outcomes.” Which I also think takes down the pressure and the burden to go, they need to get it right all the time.
Like we only ever really want our kids to be perfect because it's a reflection of us. Right. So our kid throwing a tantrum in Target, we're we're not worried about their mental, emotional wellbeing. We're going, “This makes me look bad. You better stop.” Right?
And when we take out that ego, like you said, we. I think we get in a place where we can actually go, “Oh wow, something's happening here. I should pay attention. I said, listen, I should figure out what's going on and try and adjust or navigate this moment in a way that's helpful for my kid who, who seemingly is struggling.” Right? Or going through something or having a bad time as opposed to going, you know, “Clean up your act. I'm gonna look stupid to my friends or to these strangers”. Right. Which is even worse.
Daron: Mean, right. .Like, I mean, case in point. Have you seen the, the college admission scandal? Netflix movie?
Jelani: Oh yeah, yeah.
Daron: You know, for, for any listeners who haven't seen it, it's it's must see TV because within 20 minutes, it's very apparent. This is less about where, um, Johnny or Sarah are, you know, what's best for their future. This is, this is about what are the dinner conversations gonna sound like at the country club, when everyone's sharing where our kids are going to school. Yeah.
And I, it is very easy to get into this comparison game around, you know, which middle school, which private school, which camp, like it's, it's this it's in… As with most of these sorts of battles, you're never winning, right? Someone someone's always going to one-up you in some respect and, you know, we're, we've got one of our kids in a school that, you know, some people kind of frown up on, but there's a really great arts program there and she, and she loves it like that is. And so you have to be able to withstand the kind of quizzical looks from the neighbors when you say, “Oh, so, and so's going this place” and really hold onto her face lighting up when she's bringing home this incredible art project.
And from someone who's like, you know, again, this was like a Harvard law school, you know, check the box kind of guy, I'm now looking around and saying to myself, like, for example, my kid, my middle son, Jackson came to me and said, “How much revenue do I need to have in by 18 to not go to college? Like if I'm generating how much revenue?”
He has his entrepreneurial mind, which, I mean, like he's at first we tried to kind of put some, we kind of held him back, cause he'll go door to door, he'll make up a product and go door door and just sell. And I said, “You know what?” I said, “Hey, I said, listen, you, you, you're working a muscle that is, has like lifelong ROI. I'm not gonna hold you back.” I mean, he's the guy that's like taking the compost from Starbucks, repackaging it and in the spring going door to door. You know, to say, “Hey, I could…”
And I said to myself, first of. It, it kind of sh I was like, “Wait, not go to college, generate revenue.
They, I thought to myself, “Hey, you know, there's probably, I said, you know what, there's not a number I said, but let's not turn this into an either or .Let's just, let's always, I, I love that you're bringing this to me. Let's always have this conversation if you're having this feeling because you maybe not. You may be losing money at 18. And we collectively make the decision that you need to really go all in on this. Yeah. So let's not try to turn this into a different game. Let's just be sensitive to kind of where you are and what you think is best.”
Jelani: Mm mm. I love that. And you’re, ou're expanding his opportunities. You're expanding his possibilities in the future for what could be as opposed to going, “Here's what I'll approve of. And here's what I won't approve of.”
And kids, whether, whether they consciously know those rails or not, they try and follow them because they know they'll get the wrist slapped if they don't and that's which, which is like, I'm here at my home office with my like random array of action figures and books and my podcast gear and my computer and stuff. And, and there's like no door in my office. My kids just like walk up to me like. While I am at work, I'm like literally trying to run a company and my kids are still puzzled what my job is, but every year it gets a little more clear to them that I kind of get to show up and do literally, whatever the hell I want to. And my job is good and it's hard and it's fun and it's challenging and it's, it's tricky and it's exactly what I made to do.
And I, and I want just through that osmosis of them watching me for them to go, not “How do I do what dad does?” It’s “How do I do that version of that for me? What, what does my sandbox look like that I want to show up to and play in?”
And in that I I've learned, I've learned, learned, learned, cause we have a really unusual family situation. We've got a blended family, six kids, um, four go off to another home every other weekend. One goes off to another home, every other, like three and a half days, literally. And then one stays here. okay. And the, I mean, you just imagine, you know, I'm at a soccer game with my ex-wife and her new husband and their two kids plus the one it's a whole thing. Okay. Every single time. And what I've learned sometimes I should shut up and not say a single thing and model something, show them something. Cuz the moment I wanna insert a specific opinion, they actually have, it's like another board of directors that they can take that opinion to and, and surface it with to see what that one, that one thinks.
And what I realized is my kids are savvy as hell cuz they have to be switching back and forth between homes just creates that. And I build trust with them. I build security with them and I, I think I build a solid worldview for them by just saying, you know, “Do, as I do, as I say,” cuz my actions will always speak louder than my words.
And then I realize I don't, you actually need to say this stuff. I don't need to, we don't need to be in a car ride and go, oh, “Now's the time to bring up the future. We're gonna decide the future.” Right? I don't have to do that. I just have to actually on a daily basis, hour by hour, show them. And it's, I think had a profound effect on, on all of my kids.
Daron: You know, something you said at the very beginning struck me in the, um, and I think this, this will probably resonate with a lot of what you just said and what I'm thinking will probably resonate with a lot of entrepreneurial parents. Where I remember every Sunday evening, my dad would sit me down as he balanced his checkbook. Mm. You know, and he'd show me, okay, here are the utilities and mortgage and we'd walk through.
And for me, cause my kids are the same. Like I'm, I'm, I'm mobile. Sometimes I'm in Starbucks. Sometimes I'm at home. I still have my office at UT, even though I'm on sabbatical. So I'm here on campus. And I made a decision a few years ago. I've hired my oldest two as subcontractors for my speaking business. Mm-hmm so they do, they'll do video and like Instagram lives for speeches and I'll take them on the road with me and I pay them. Um, and then I also let all of my kids, when I, whenever I get hard checks, I let them deposit them at the bank or at the ATM, and I show them the amount.
And so it's helped to really spur some conversations around. “Okay. So you do this thing and people compensate you for that thing. Mm-hmm and then that gets converted into lights water mm-hmm Chick-fil-A vacations.” Yeah. You know?
And so, and it took them two or three years to really, even their language shifting around, they stopped saying daddy's going to work. And they started saying, daddy's working. Like, I noticed that shift. I thought, oh, it was less about a physical space and more about the act. Yeah. Um, and that would not, I could not have conveyed that to them. Had I sat them down and said, “Okay, let's talk about the difference between a W2 and a 1099.”
It goes back to your point about just, just doing modeling the, the behavior, and then giving them a peak inside of what's going on.
Jelani: Yeah. Well, speaking of modeling behavior, you know, before we started chatting, I, I had sent you an email and said, “If this, if, if we could talk about anything, what do you wanna talk about?”
And you said, “Radical grace between spouses and kids”. Unpack that for me, please.
Daron: Everyone loves Brene Brown, vulnerability, empathy. Um, I was, I was able to do a one on one interview with her pre COVID. I can't remember much of what she said, but this is what, this is what really stuck with me: Well, now I wanna ask her a question. There would be this uncomfortable pause. Like uncomfortable for me. Whereas the, as the interviewing, I'm wondering, did I screw this thing up? Does she understand what I just said? Did this going off the rail? But then she'd have this thoughtful response obviously.
And I remember telling my wife, like, um, we all preach like the power of listening and pausing and breathing. In the family setting is probably where those beliefs get tested more than in any other environment on the planet. And so I've, I've learned, when I pull into my driveway, I take two to three minutes. I shut my phone down. I leave my phone in the car until the kids go to bed. And I really, I really, I close my eyes and I attempt to shut all of the boxes in my brain related to work.
And I tell myself, regardless of how the house looks, what it smells like, what the noise level is, I am just going to assume the best from the other six people in that house as soon as I walk in.
And it's it's, I've had to, and I'm still not where I need to be, but I've just learned that, you know, I would walk in and if things weren't in a certain place, or if someone wasn't talking or if someone was being loud, something was wrong with someone like I was trying to identify the culprit.
Jelani: You came in like a detective trying to try like crack the case.
Daron: A detective! I got the hat on, I got the trench coat going. And I'm like, look, man, these people all have lives. I'm just gonna walk in and as, and just practice some radical grace and assume the best from everyone. And it has been for me, Jelani, it has been a game changer changer.
What I find is like in 99.9% of the circumstances, people are trying to do the right thing. Like people. Yeah. You know, your, your, your, your mate, or, you know, your, your eldest is not trying to subvert the home on a daily basis. Like, yes.
So this radical grace I'm really, um, I'm, I'm really focusing now as a parent on slowing down, on breathing, on restating what I heard to make sure that my, my, what I think I heard is what someone's trying to tell me.
I'm trying to use more question marks than periods. Um, and just assume the best, right? Cause I tell my kids do that with people they don't know. I say, look, you know, for me was my grandmother Thelma saying, “Once a person shows you who they are, believe them.”
And we went through this in the, you know, 2020 and 2021 around, look, give people an opportunity to show you who they are. And then I'll notice, I wasn't really practicing that on a daily basis with my, in my interactions with them. And so that's the work that I'm, I'm focusing on right now?
Jelani: Mm that's hard work. I mean, I'm, I'm just, I'm going through scenarios in my head with my own kids and, and I'll find myself. This is like complete honesty. I'll find myself, not only, not only like with my antenna up going, “What's what's happening here?” Right? But going, like, “What can I find?”
Like, almost, almost looking for a reason to be angry as a way to shift the blame as a way to exercise this, like this energy that I have, and, and not just be present and assume the best and, and, uh, embrace my kids excitement and seeing me and wanting to share something with me, wanting to share their day with me because I'm caught up on, you know, My son left some, uh, some Top Ramen noodles, the dry ones, like just some, some scraps on the ground. And, and like that, like is just like lodging in a place in my brain where like all of a sudden that is that's the universe. Right. That's like, that's like everything. Who's like, not only, not only he left them there, but there was like premeditated intent to leave them there, forgetfulness that he left them there. You know?
And, and, and I, you know, you almost have to laugh at yourself cuz it's like, what what is this? And I think it's that being a parent can make you feel so outta control, just absolutely outta control. Cuz you got all these human being.
I mean I got six, you got five. That's a lot of kids, man. Um, and I'm just, I'm working to control myself most days, forget about a bunch of other human beings. And, and there's a sense of helplessness I think that comes from that.
If, if you were to give one, just tip, secret little nugget or jewel for parents to, to embrace that, that, that radical grace, what is that? Is it just to just. Just sit there and breathe and just go, why am I, why am I not enjoying this moment or embracing it for what it is? Why am I almost looking for a reason to be upset?
Daron: Yeah. As a coach, I remember I was around some pretty elite athletes. I think of guys like Tony Gonzalez, hall of fame tight end. Calvin Johnson, hall of fame wide receiver.
And watching them and listening to them. It was when the whistle blew, they were, they were moving fast, but everything about them before, like before the game, after the game in practice, everything was very deliberate and slow. Like when they were taking a practice rep, even the way they approached the line of scrimmage, or even the way that they like the preparations, they would go through with their body before a workout. Like everything was so deliberate and slow.
And so my main coaching point, and I'm coaching myself. So this is nothing I've mastered and I am in the I'm in the struggle with you. All of your parents are listening, like I'm in the struggle. Slowing down, like really slowing the clock down.
I'm really rushing my kids to get ready for school because I wanna start my day at eight o'clock in Starbucks. So, it may be that the angst that I'm exerting, because Dylan can't find his shoes is less about him not finding his shoes at that time. It's more about my own expectation of my day. And really slowing down and thinking to myself, “This is a 30 second solution.” Like, this dilemma will be solved within the next 30 seconds. Is it worth the blow up at 7:14 AM on a Tuesday morning?
And I've, you know, a point that you made, I think is so important, which is sometimes not saying anything.
I mean, you zoom out, the kid knows he doesn't have any shoes on. He knows he has to go to school. He's looking, he wants to put on shoes. Do I need to continuously berate him about our, our system for shoe placement? It'll make me feel good. It'll make him feel bad. Yeah. Net loss.
So really slowing down. And, and I think that I also have recognized this is that I've been a little hypocritical in the sense of I sold entrepreneurship and owning my own business as a means to freedom in time. But in practice, I'm not practicing. Like I'm not exuding the benefit that I sold you. I don't have to get to work at 8:00 AM because the guy in the cubicle next to me is going to give me the side eye. I don't have to do that. So like what's so what is it? Right. So just really slowing down, slowing down.
Jelani: Well, I think, I think that's the absolute perfect piece of wisdom and I'm already thinking of moments that I can put it into practice in my, in my own life.
Daron. Wow, man. Thank you. This was great.
Daron: No, man. Thank you. Listen, thanks for all that you do.
I mean, I, the grand connector of the universe, Kevin Carroll, brought us together.
From that, you know, writing the book with you. I love everything.
Here's the thing you and I both know that there are a lot of people who've attempted to do this work, but I always trust my spidey sense. And I know when it, it isn't from a place of genuine care, it's, it's a market move.
Everything that you've done and that you do is really aimed at fostering these types of conversations and helping us all to get better. And so I'm a proud author, investor, like I'm, I'm all in. So I, I thank you for you could be doing a lot of things in this planet. So, I just thank you for taking on the work.
Jelani: Oh, thank you. That, uh, truly, it means a lot. Thank you.
[CLOSING]
Jelani: Thanks again to Daron, and to you for listening.
You can find Daron at @DKR on Twitter.
And keep up with me at @jelanimemory on the Twitters.
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Just email us at listen@akidsco.com.
Better Grownups is written and hosted by me, Jelani Memory. Matthew Winner, the one and only, was the producer on this episode, with additional production support from Chad Michael Snavely and the team at Sound On Studios.
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